19 October 2011

Is there a way for someone to know beforehand if the studies that he considers to do overseas, will be recognised in Greece when he returns?

There is a majority of young people 17-18 years old, that they are completely clueless when they go to study abroad about DOATAP, and about what degrees are recognised and what not. They don't know what degrees lead to professional rights and what not. Unfortunately this is true even for people studying in Greece.
In case that someone decides to study a particular subject, is there a way to know beforehand if that subject is recognised in Greece? If that was the case, people would pursue their choice of study knowing that there is no recognition and thus when they would return they would not waste any time with DOATAP.
Next follows a small interview with an ex-employee of DOATAP about this issue at the time he was still employee.
Question: If someone considers to go abroad for studying a particular degree or a particular combination of degrees (e.g. Bachelor + Master), could he get a letter from DOATAP, before he goes to study, that this programme of study will be recognised under certain criteria (or not) after his return in Greece? If yes, would that letter be binding for DOATAP?
Answer: When I still worked in DOATAP, there was such a letter, that said if a particular University, School, faculty, department and programme of study was recognised or not. That is, if someone would return in Greece and had that letter, his degree would immediately be recognised – however time delays would still exist. As a matter of fact there was a decision of the board of DOATAP that if a particular degree had been recognised in the past, new degrees with exactly the same attributes should be recognised too without much scrutiny.
Question: When that procedure had problems?
Answer: Problems in this procedure still existed in particular occasions, that were popping up quite often.
Say for example, that someone would see that a particular university, school, faculty, department and programme of study was recognised and would see that 50 people with that particular degree had been recognised in the past. Based on those say he decides to study that degree and gets it after 4-5 years. In the mean time, in those 4-5 years that he studies, the title of the faculty, or of the degree, or the programme of study changes. I.e. when he started it was named Department of Mathamatics, and when he finishes, at the 3ο year the name changed to Department of applied Mathematics. Or from the 40 modules that he needed to get his degree, 5 would change with another 5.
That case was not at all rare. In fact it was almost the case the departments to change a bit their names and programme of study every 10 years. In that case the candidate had to pass all procedures from the beginning. Needless to say that in many occasions the academics did not recognise any more the new department. Particularly for those universities that they were not very famous, that was happening all the time - I had seen it with my own eyes.
Another occasion would be that the degree was recognised, but since some of the subjects that the academics considered important had changed, they sent the candidates into giving exams for the correspondence of the title, although the exact same faculty in the past years was recognised immediately without the need of giving exams.

I hope that helped

15 February 2011

University, yes. Honest? (A Pandora's Box show - on NET - part D)

Watch the documentary of Kostas Vaxevanis for the Greek Universities (part D).

Εκπομπή: Πανεπιστήμιο, ναι. Τίμιο; Δ’ μέρος from Kouti Pandoras on Vimeo.

9 February 2011

University, yes. Honest? (A Pandora's Box show - on NET - part C)

Watch the documentary of Kostas Vaxevanis for the Greek Universities (part C).


Εκπομπή: Πανεπιστήμιο, ναι. Τίμιο; Γ’ μέρος from Kouti Pandoras on Vimeo.

8 February 2011

A service of DOATAP that says what foreign academic institutions are known to be recognized

I don't know if they still maintain it. If you don't find an institution in the list, does not mean it is not recognized. Probably means that no student has yet applied for recognition coming from that institution.
the link:

7 February 2011

Letter from a former employee at DOATAP. What he saw and what he lived (addition to the last article)

6. To assess a degree as valid he law requires the satisfaction of the Executive and Academic Board. These committees consist of academics. The law demands (at least at the time I was an employee) that academics are obliged to present themselves in DOATAP a minimum of once a semester. So I the question is, how is it possible to give the result of an application to a citizen within 3 months-that by the law is required, when the same law allows the committees to meet only once a semester without enforcing any meetings in the mean time, if that is justified by the number of applications.

In fact, if a committee assembles and due to lack of time, leaves applications unprocessed these applications will be left for examination for the next time the committee will assemble. That is in the best of the cases 6 months. So in extreme cases and due to neglect academics (who often did), some applications took more than 15 months just to be read by the committee! In the case that someone would ask for a review of his application, he should anticipate an extra delay of 2-3 months.

The above was legitimate at one side of the law, so academics did so legitimately. DOATAP though on the other side of the law was acting illegitimately towards the citizen, because the law itself demanded no more than 3 months for the delivery of the results. The absurdity in its glory!

A controversial law that said a thing is black and white, at the same time (and the thing surely was not a chessboard...). A law created to cause suffering to the people and to inspire conflicts between the staff, the citizens and the academics. A law that, even when citizens went to courts to claim that their application should be processed in three months at most (due to the law!), they did not receive justice because the same law had given the defendants the arguments that allowed them longer delays than the three months.

A former worker of DOATAP.

5 February 2011

Letter from a former employee at DOATAP. What he saw and what he lived.

I saw your blog by accident and decided to write to you. I am a former employee of DOATAP for obvious reasons will not sign with my name. I worked for a year in DOATAP a few years ago and all but 1 year was enough time to fully understand how that organisation works. I commit to you some thoughts that I believe they would be helpful to the readers of this blog.

First of all I should say that the grievances of the people in most of the cases are fair and just. Be aware also that at least from what I have experienced, the majority of the employees in DOATAP share the same indignation with that of the rest of the citizens. In fact, one of the regular discussions between the staff was how right the people are to complain about DOATAP, and how much this unspeakable organization torments ordinary citizens.

Be aware also that many workers in DOATAP were often themselves suffered by the same organization, in their effort to recognize their degrees. One of the mistakes that are often be made and said in this blog and other of the same subject - and also by the people visiting DOATAP in individual meetings with the employees of DOATAP – is that for all wrongdoings and disfunctions for DOATAP the workers are the culprits. That in my opinion is a mistake! Because the employee is the last cog in a corupted system. Thus employees certainly do not have any personal problem or past deal with any citizens. They simply apply the Greek law or the procedures set by the Board of the agency, or orders from their superiors. In these three mentioned and as well as some extra that I am to add subsequently, should anyone search for responsibilities.

Let me say that I have 15 years experience in the private sector working in medieval conditions (work with a whip) as most people who work in the private sector, 1 year experience in DOATAP and 5 years experience in government as a teacher. Throughout this journey the worst conditions I have ever worked was in DOATAP, both in terms of workload and in terms of worker treatment by the superiors.

My work was not recognized and even further it was depreciated by my superiors and by the next employee who took charge after me, passing responsibilities of the delays to the previous “bad” employee. In order to clarify things, the real reasons that make DOATAP such a dysfunctional and stubborn organisation, are the ones mentioned bellow, in an order of precedence:

1. First to blame is the very bad law that has been adopted and applied to the recognition of foreign diplomas. Everything starts from the incompetence (or the intentional pretence of incompetence...would say the translator) of the useless parliament to pass functional laws that ignore the problem it seeks to solve. The law suffers from a technocratic perspective and because of the vagueness of the procedures it describes.

2. Huge responsibility rests with the trustees, that is, the chairmen, the vice-chairmen and members of the Board. First of all they have (or had) total ignorance on the issues and the purpose of the organization, secondly they have been appointed by political criteria. Thirdly, the are not regular with their responsibilities. As you know, all decisions should take the President's sign. So how to manage well and timely an organization when the President of it (at least when I was working there) was visiting his office only twice a month, for 3-4 hours each time! The biggest time delay to recognize a degree comes from the President himself. Needless to say that too often managers (they too political appointees) blame for the delays at the indignant citizens, ordinary employees, covering the president's and their (in)actions.

3. Responsibility rests as well with the managers of the Sections, 2-3 overall. For the reasons stated above, but also because of their lack of appropriate training and education (concerning management of such an organisation). They often put their employees to do useless work, covering their superiors misdeeds, they were often promoting for faster recognition the files of those they wanted in a political basis due to orders received from MPs and ministers. In addition they often deliberately delayed the files of those people who happened to personally insult them and had threatened legal action against them. Thus forwarding to the president, the files they wanted. Indeed perhaps the greatest responsibility lays to all supervisors and in particular to the “Department of recognition of qualifications”.

4. The high shortage of staff. During the period I was working in DOATAP, the organisation had only 50% -60% of the staff it supposed to have. How then could achieve the demand of the law that says each application should be processed and be completed not over a period of 3 months? On the contrary the result was the 3 months to become 4, 5 and so on. In fact the delays were exponentially increased. The responsibilities for this problem should be sought to the managers of the Ministry of Education that manage the personnel and plan the staffing of each department of DOATAP. But also in how the personnel department in DOATAP manages and allocates staff within the organisation. I forgot to mention that sometimes officials "hid" in the offices staff making them personal favours in order to dispense them from any work.

5. You may know that 80% of workers in DOATAP seconded teachers. What does this mean? That they went at DOATAP on October and they seconded back from where they came after some months (10). In these months there had to be a period of about 2 months to be trained, 1 month leave, and since we are in the public sector, for a variety of imaginative reasons, all employees managed to get about another month leave (blood donations, parental leave, sickness and so on). Finally, certainly there would be a time where they were at work but their superiors or the president where absent. Remember nothing operates in DOATAP if the managers or the President is absent – that is by the law!!!.

Finally, one should consider that an employee who undertakes a working position for just 10 months, it does not have neither the desire nor the incentives to learn the job and to put his responsibilities in order. He only counts days until he is off again to his old post. He will not be the one who will save the world. Therefore we have 80% of the staff annually renewed. Under these conditions it is very hard for anyone who wants to work and offer, to do it. The result is a net working time of 5 to 6 months with useless superiors and dysfunctional procedures.

Most of the employees being teachers do not have experience and knowledge to do a desk job that it is required. Their job is to teach children. Being in DOATAP they feel hostages to a situation that neither desire nor are prepared for. In a way they are blackmailed by the Ministry of Education to work for some time in DOATAP in exchange for staying in Athens and not be send to a desolate island (and many of them need to stay in Athens, because they have their families, their young children, their sick relatives - and thus succumb to the blackmail). Could ever an organisation function by making its employees unmotivated, and feeling hostages in this job? Where they lack the qualifications needed and they do not receive the proper training? Where they face a huge workload, with incompetent corrupted managers to manage, under opaque conditions, and blaming for all the dirt, the ordinary worker?

I conclude by saying that it must be said a huge thanks to those employees, simple because despite the odds, the majority are conscientious even though the system has created them for the opposite, and if they weren't there, the average time for the recognition of a degree would not be10 months, but more than 5 years!

Dozens more could I say but I would rather bore you than enlighten. What I like to keep in mind as conclusions are 3 things:

a) DOATAP is a villainous organization
b) Ordinary worker bear the smallest responsibility of all, for what it happens there.
c) The principal culprit is political nepotism. Where useless people are helped by the parties to progress in important positions, as a payback for their services in the parties, without any regard to the citizens, their dignity and their lives.

A former worker of DOATAP.

23 December 2010

University, yes. Honest? (A Pandora's Box show - on NET - part B)

Watch the documentary of Kostas Vaxevanis for the Greek Universities (part B).

Πανεπιστήμιο, ναι. Τίμιο; (Β΄ Μέρος) from Kouti Pandoras on Vimeo.

11 December 2010

University, yes. Honest? (A Pandora's Box show - on NET)

Watch the documentary of Kostas Vaxevanis for the Greek Universities.

Πανεπιστήμιο, ναι. Τίμιο; (Ά εκπομπή) from Kouti Pandoras on Vimeo.

10 December 2010

The results of the survey of this blog for the time delays of DOATAP, according to votes of our readers.


In the survey initially had voted more people, but because at some point I extended the expiration date of the survey, the blog's software automatically erased as many votes had been submitted before the extension, when it reached the initial expiration date of the survey. The results, however, were the same with or without the erased votes.


In addition, these are the results of the Greek version of this blog, i.e. That is because, in the english version there were only 5 votes.

Just not to forget that some in Europe are prone to political amorality more frequently than they should.

...Even though large tracts of Europe and many old and famous States have fallen or may fall into the grip of the Gestapo and all the odious apparatus of Nazi rule, we shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our land, our wealth and our islands, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender, and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, these islands and mountains or a large part of them were subjugated and starving, then our Country, armed and guarded by our ever lasting spirit, would carry on the struggle, until, in God's good time, the new world, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old...

9 December 2010

Professional rights are to be recognized for college graduates

Posted on Wednesday, May 25 in a Presidential Decree the decision that incorporates the Directive 36/2005 of the European Union in the Greek Law, which makes provisions for the recognition of the professional rights of college graduates.

Here's the link to the Official Gazette, which the decree is published:

8 December 2010

TEE (The Greek IEEE). One of the most bureaucratic organization of the Greek territory!

For months I've been trying to gather all the necessary documents to enrol in TEE (TEE is a kind of Greek IEEE). So I started to search for those documents and certificates that TEE requires for the enrolment of new members, four months ago. After I wasted/lost all these months to comprehend what are these papers and certificates and to collect them, I present the results of my work:

1. An enrolment application. Sounds reasonable, so good.
2.Copy of my Bachelor degree certified by a consular authority - Attention, DOATAP did not ask this document. Cost: 10 euros at the British Council - which apropos, is declared to the Greek tax authorities as CHARITY. So, what ever revenues is producing from the services offered are tax free! In fact, when I asked them a receipt, they did not even have a cash register, and they asked me if they could send one in a couple of weeks. Eventually, I got my receipt, which said 0% VAT.
3.A copy of my Masters degree certified by a consular authority – Attention, DOATAP also did not ask such a document (The good must be said!). Cost: 10 euros at the British Council.
4.Copy of the courses and marks certificate of my Bachelor, authenticated by a consular authority. Cost: $ 20.
5.Copy of the courses and marks certificate of my Master, certified by a consular authority. Cost: $ 20.

Also, you should include in the cost the money you may give to a courier, or tickets and other expenses if it happens you to live in a city that is not fortunate to have a British council and have to go in person to a city that it has. Let's say 150 Euros.
6.A translation of the Bachelor degree from an authorized lawyer. Cost 30 euros.
7.A translation of the Master degree from an authorized lawyer. Cost 30 euros.
8. A translation of the certificate of courses and marks of Bachelor, from an authorized lawyer. Cost: 80 Euros.
9.A translation of the certificate of courses and marks of Master, from an authorized lawyer. Cost: 80 Euros.

From 6, 7, 8 and 9 one can conclude that a) TEE stewards and assessors (usually Engineers) of the applications are illiterate in the English language. We are talking about the elite of the Greek intelligence and education - Engineers with b@@ls! It is not reasonable. Some of them know English fluently Or b) TEE has non-English-speaker secretaries who don't understand what the documents say. By their very definition, secretaries are hired for their writing, typewriting, foreign languages and other organisational and secretarial skills – They have to know English!. Or c) Engineers of TEE help lawyers make extra money? You can select more than one answer ...

10.Copy of the recognition of your degrees from DOATAP – provided by DOATAP.

Lets go over again, TEE asks for 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5, why? Because (I say) it wants to ensure that all diplomas that are submitted to it are legitimate. But then what is the role of DOATAP!

DOATAP has the role of checking the authenticity, validity of foreign academic qualifications and credibility of universities that grant them. Finally, to decide how to match a foreign degree with the indigenous Greek academic titles. I guess, once DOATAP makes a verdict over a particular degree, all other agencies of the Greek public should accept its verdict, without the need to for a candidate to resupply to each agency all his academic documents and degrees, and try to prove once again his/her academic competency.

11.Four photo sizes (3x3, 5), Cost: 7 Euros.
12.Three copies of Greek identity card.
13.A TEE Participation payment of 72 Euros- These go to TEE's pockets .
14.A double stamp, of nominal value of 30 euros if the candidate has a tax office registry number or a duty fee stamp of the same denomination issued by any Tax Office – These, I have no idea to whose pockets go.
15. Sworn statement of Law 1599/86, which Claims: The title of the thesis and that the candidate prepared thesis himself alone.
16.Summary of his thesis in Greek (1-3 typed pages)
17. Sworn statement of Law 1599/86 that he is not ....... a crook.
18. An application form of membership in TSMEDE.
19.An application form for "free" services to myTEE.

Keep in mind that those who studied abroad should descend / ascend to the department of TEE in Athens and only in Athens to submit their documents and give their examinations. Thus, add an extra cost for two trips to Athens about 400 euros (plus or minus 100 per case).
The total financial cost amounts to: 952 Euros.
The total psychological cost: depends on the person ...

15 April 2010

Bring them back!

23 December 2009

A European union of two bureaucratic speeds. Comparison of the Spanish procedures in recognition of foreign degrees with those of Greece. An article of Olympic Spirit.

The economic, intellectual and social boom of the European continent in recent decades and the fall of the Berlin Wall allowed the conversion of a purely economic organization, as was the EEC in a multicultural institution like the European Union and the enlargement to the countries of the former Eastern bloc. Rapid developments on the international market and the increase in the demand of skilled labour force caused the economic union and the abolition of EU borders.

However, E.E. still leaves to the governments of the Member States the right to rule over matters relating to education such as the recognition of foreign qualifications. This is a clear contradiction with the Community rules governing the free movement of workers in the countries that make up the EE. The lack of a common education policy at a European level creates problems and difficulties for those intending to seek work in another state or studied abroad and want to recognize their labour rights to their homeland.

Typical is the case of Greece where there is a very high percentage of students who choose foreign universities to complete their studies. The Greek graduates who wish to return to their homeland and therefore decide not to stay abroad are faced with absurd situations only, Kafka could describe in detail.

In Greece, the body responsible for the recognition of foreign degrees is DOATAP which replaced the old Dikatsa. The academic qualifications of universities abroad is very difficult to be recognized entirely by DOATAP. Often DOATAP requires the applicants who wish to recognise their degrees to be re-examined on courses already passed in the foreign university. I would now like to make a comparison on the procedures that Greece and Spain follow to recognise foreign degrees.

Greece is a very bureaucratic state. The documents (along with the Hague stamps, fees, endorsements, certifications, affidavits, etc.) required by the Greek state puzzle and mislead any applicant. It is worth noting that graduates must pay a significant state tax compared to other countries for the same job (150 per title). For example, in Spain the amount totals to 90 euros for the 4-year and 5-year degrees and 45 euros for three year degrees. The waiting period of appeal in Greece can be about 1.5-2 years or even more. In Spain - in many cases - it does not exceed the 8 months ....

With these evidences one can conclude that there is a two-speed Europe. A two-speed Europe not only economically speaking but also bureaucratically speaking. The obstacles that the official Greek state imposes on the recognition of foreign qualifications have serious consequences for the access of graduates in the labour market. Taking into account that many Greeks usually intend to work in the public sector - especially in this difficult economic environment - and that to participate someone to the public sector hiring examinations he has to have the recognition of his academic qualifications from DOATAP, it is evident how important is this recognition.

In a united Europe, What, institutions such as DOATAP serve? What are the needs that they meet? Why Greece does not want to comply with the system that exists in other EU countries concerning the recognition of foreign degrees and prefers instead to pay fines? These are questions with no easy answers.

The "European" should not be attributed only when Brussels is giving funds for the Olympic Games of 2004, for the Athens Metro, but also should not be attributed in other shameful circumstances affecting the daily lives of Greeks. That is why it is needed an immediate simplification of the bureaucratic system of Greece, to make the Greek economy more competitive and to provide more opportunities for top professionals who otherwise are forced to migrate to other geographical and economical areas to find better working and living conditions.


An article of Olympic Spirit.

5 December 2009

Suggestion: A legal book considering the education

Good morning to every one,

In addition to the changes DOATAP has to make and in general the Greek public services in order to reach the standards of the rest of EU members, it is important that we, as interested and active citizens be aware of the laws and the procedures concerning either DOATAP, education and other public services. In this way we will be more prepared and equipped to claim more efficient our legal rights and thus to avoid any discrepancies and misdeeds from organisations and public servants.

For that reason I suggest a book that may be useful to candidate students and graduates of Greek and foreign universities. In the appendices of this book one can find the most important legislation and jurisprudence of the Greek council of state.

I hope that is useful,

The legal framework of operation and organisation of higher education - Third version AEI-TEI (1982-2007). Legislation, case law, new institutions, DOATAP (formerly Dikatsa), Higher Military Educational Academies, Higher Ecclesiastical Academies.

- Codes, Dictionaries, ECR
- Substantive, Administrative Law
- Public Law
- State
- Codification of Legislation
- Law of Education

Panayiotis Poulis
ISBN / ISSN: 978-960-445-180-7
© 2007, XXII 684 pages, 58,00 Euros

Article by **SoFiA** .

1 December 2009

The new Greek Southpark! For those with humor ...

25 November 2009

A very revealing incident…

Mr. Pantoulas an MP in the Greek parliament when he attempted to visit DOATAP had an experience that most of us who were unlucky enough to be obliged to do it, have experienced it too.

Mr. Pantoulas trying to understand why DOATAP is unreasonably delaying the publication of its decision of a particular applicant, stumbled upon an impassable block of mockery, bureaucracy and ignorance. That led him to a sharp disillusionment about the role of DOATAP, sharp enough that made the headlines.

Read the stories below (they are in Greek):

The answer of Mr. Pantoulas to a published article

Open letter from Michael. Pantoulas for DOATAP

Personally having knowledge of what is DOATAP it is incredibly difficult for me to believe the version of the story that is given by DOATAP ...


Long live Pantoulas!

2 November 2009

Suggestions on electronic governance, transparency and anti-bureaucracy for DOATAP

New Government in Greece, new faces with new ideas. Ideas like e-governance, transparency and anti-bureaucracy. Will these announcements be realized or they will just stay announcements just like those of the previous government concerning the re-establishment of the Greek state, that they were only realized on the level or renaming agencies and ministers? Time will only show that. Concerning now DOATAP, I will make some suggestions on how it could conform with these new ideas.

One of those ideas is concerned on how to combat the lack of knowledge that many have when they try to seek the services of that unspeakable organisation. Ignorance on what to do, what documents are needed and how to find them. Think first that all applicants seeking recognition from DOATAP belong to case. A case where more than frequently other applicants belong too. Such a case could be described with terms of education level, country of studies, degree, Master, citizenship and other attributes.

It would be a good idea to have a long list on the web page of DOATAP describing (in plain language texts) such scenarios with the actions that should undertake an applicant falling into a certain scenario in order to proceed with his recognition. I.e. what papers he would need to present in DOATAP's offices, where he could possibly find those papers (meaning in what public organisation). How much would he have to pay in fees, etc. Such a list with scenarios would give a good picture to someone falling close to that scenario on what he would have to face. For example:

Scenario 1.
Suppose someone finished his high school in Germany and the he studied his degree in Greece, does he need to go through a recognition process (it might be obvious but many people don't know that!)? And if so what should he do? What documents must be collected and from where? How much will it cost (Fees);

Scenario 2.
If someone lives abroad and is currently trying to find the documents for DOATAP by authorising someone else to do it for him, how he could do such a mandate? Can he do it through a Greek consular abroad or it can only happen through a KEP (Centres for Public Servicing – That's a translation of mine...) in Greece?

Scenario 3.
Say for example that someone has finished his high school in the Czech Republic, he studied his degree in Germany and has dual citizenship, Greek and Czech, what does he have to do in order to recognize his degree in Greece? I without working in DOATAP have thought of three scenarios.

I can imagine that an employee of DOATAP who is confronted daily with various scenarios would be able to publish at least ten new scenarios every day.

Moreover, these scenarios could be accessible through a search engine (and search engines such as Google, Yahoo, and others) that a person could simply write a few keywords on the website of DOATAP or even directly to Google, eg: "Germany, Civil Engineer" and that to turn back all of the relevant articles containing the word “Germany” and “Civil Engineering”.

Another good idea would be to post all the decisions of DOATAP in a list in public (whether thy are negative or positive), but without the identity (name / last name) of the candidate! We want transparency! Thus, all decisions should be published with all the details of that scenario, a serial number and a code that only the candidate will know. If DOATAP wants us not to have the right to say that it functions like a Masonic Order, taking decisions behind closed doors, promoting others and disadvantaging others, it should publish everything. If all decisions of DOATAP are published with the scenario accompanied them, then if someone had been wronged he will find out and most importantly he will be able to prove it beyond doubt. He will be able to compare with identical or similar cases. Even better would be if that list could be used as an evidence in a legal quarrel between an applicant and DOATAP in case the first has valid suspicions that he has been wronged.

Lets say that the list should look a bit like this:


Number of decision


Title of Degree

ΜΙΤ Civil Engineer

Post Graduate title

ΜΙΤ Underground Constructions

Unique Number of Applicant


Request of the applicant

Clearing of Master and Bachelor for Equivalence, Assign and Grades with a Greek University


Lack of teaching of object of designing earthquake resistant buildings for over 9.99 Richter.

Time passed until the publication of DOATAP Decision

2 years

Decision of DOATAP

Recognition and matching after the candidate is examined on following courses: Planning for earthquake-resistant buildings in over 9.99 Richter in a Greek University


See how simple can things become when they are demystified. That is what transparency is all about. Of course once a bunch of best IT people sit down and seriously think how to solve these problems I am sure they will come up with excellent ideas way more clever than mine in making DOATAP, transparent, functional and above all fair.

8 October 2009

19 July 2009

18 July 2009

Why the Scandinavian countries have better education and better state than we have?

For years now I wonder what the Scandinavians have done that we Greeks have not. How have they managed to create both functional states and an education system that the whole world envies. How have they managed to create the most competitive economies in the world with high-tech industries with exports around the globe and how they have achieved the rule of law and that of meritocracy. The first naive answer is: because they are Scandinavians! They are cold rational thinkers, without passions, they are organized, etc. It is the usual crap that many people in Greece say.

Consider that the current situation in Greece benefits some people – (which they don't happen to belong to the majority of Greeks). I only say that things are the way they are because some people have planned them to be that way. And that people happen as well to be those who are getting benefited the most. Of course, those who have made the plan have managed to have ”inappropriate” access to people in key positions in the Greek economy, the press or the state (journalists under their payroll, public servants who earn from bribes and/or acting on the behalf of an interest, politicians who are dramatizing the situation like TV-stars, but in fact they don't desire changes at all – they are incompetent anyway to make changes).

Some of those who do not belong to the planners' club, support the current situation since they have found a"tolls" positions in a public organization and thus apply their own “tax system” (bribes, servicing interests or nepotism). The most tragic is that they even have an excuse for what they are doing by saying that this is Greece, everybody does the same. Even worse is the fact that a majority of Greek people that are neither of the planners nor those who can impose their “tolls” on the system have been convinced (by whom?) that the things are like that because of the Greek temperament, that this is the Balkans, that we should blame the heat of the Mediterranean which deprives us to operate as "Europeans (hello, we have air conditions now!!!)".

I always wondered why the Scandinavians can and we cannot, and to my surprise I have started to grasp some things that they did and we didn't. One of the biggest differences between Greece and Nordic countries (beyond the weather) is taxation. After the WWII, they made a choice to use heavy taxes to have significant revenues and thus to be able to create the infrastructure they needed (we have chosen to borrow money and not to tax those who were earning the most, and that not until 1980), to create the institutions that would impose the rule of law and merit, to have a good education but also to have a strong competitive and liberal economy.

In Greece after the war, the choice was to create some very rich and famous which they would initiate the (at the time) non-existed Greek economy. That was the reason that taxation of those very rich back then was very small or non-existed. Therefore, the choice was not to create the necessary infrastructure that would allow Greece to have a modern economy, to have institutions that would guarantee the rule of law, a good education system, but more significant an economy that would allow participation from all parts of the country (since there were no road system or other transportation means) and from all levels of society (since the economic activity was restricted to some very famous rich people). I will mention that in the era 1970-1990, the income tax in Sweden was up 80%!. You see the model of capitalism that was chosen in Greece was a slur of that of USA (but in the USA there were antitrust policies since the 30s - we are establishing them now). So the first option in the Nordic countries was to create fiscal awareness, mechanisms to monitor and implement fiscal measures, mechanisms to combat tax evasion. To establish an impeccable justice system, to make schools, roads, drain systems, universities, ports, etc.

Moreover, the model of entrepreneur that was propagated was that of the big ship owners like Onassis and Niarchos (and many others – lately many owners of construction firms), where they were operating beyond the local national laws. Is this not the ideal of successful Greek businessman? That who does anything he wants, avoiding law restrictions. That of the fraudster who becomes quickly rich by cheating. Of the man who knows politicians, judges, journalists and in general has powerful acquaintances. And of course once he is at the top of the economic pyramid he is upgraded as a major factor of the economic life and politics. And since he has become a significant economic factor, able to move the local economy by his size, he gets his “amnesty” for any past misdeeds...

After all how could they face the law since the the state itself had entrusted to them a large part of the functioning of the economy, and with no trade offs (proper taxation) to balance this relationship?

Well, you don't expect the people who have reached in this way at the top of economic life, to allow things to change, why should they? Since they hold the money and the means to preserve their benefits, it is evident that they will use both to do it. Then the only thing that remains is to convince the rest of the Greek society that there is no other choice. That, this is the nature of the things.

Let's do a comparison of taxation between Greece and the Nordic countries today:













Income tax



from 16.7% to 50%



Total tax burden as a percentage of GDP

43% of GDP

47.8% of GDP

45% of GDP

51% of GDP

32.1% of GDP


Let us say that the Nordic countries still maintain that taxation without owing as much as the Greek state. Nevertheless, the Greek state being one of the most indebted nations of EUcontinues to further reduction of taxes. That reduces the state income and increases its debt ...

Finally, it might be our temperament's fault up to a point for not having a good state or a good education or for anything else bad it happens to us, but it is not the most significant. A good state , god infrastructures and good education system do not happen without significant amounts of money – money that has to come from taxation of big pockets and not from further government lending.

References: # Taxation

13 July 2009

The reestablishment and renaming of DOATAP and of other public services in a "Public Relations" way. Changing the names of public services in order to improve their former bad reputation to the public consciousness.

First of all it should be given a definition of what is "Public relations". The Wikipedia gives the following definition: "Public relations is the management of reputation as a result of transactions, messages and the perception of others for them."
For instance in order to manage the reputation of a public organization, the art of public relations has a number of techniques. One such fundamental technique is the “name giving” (the term is mine). Let's say a company launches a new car model and is looking to give a representative name. If the company makes sales of the product worldwide, it should guarantee that the name will not mean shit, blood, hair, killer, etc. in any local language. Because nobody will buy a car called killer. Therefore you can see the importance of giving the right name in Marketing and Public Relations. Similarly, when an organization, party, service is connected to the conscience of the world with something bad or immoral or defective or has a bad reputation, a practice to reverse this reputation is to change its name.
The practice of changing name in order to improve reputation is widespread today in many public services and in the private sector. Concerning now our cause this practice was applied in DIKATSA. Under the guise of the reinvention of the Greek state, the name was changed to DOATAP to dissociate it in the conscience of the people from its past missachievements. In other words, to obtain a better reputation. The problem though is that since nothing really changed in the actual operation of DOATAP, very soon the former reputation was inherited by the new term. It was a matter of time for that to happen since the problem of DIKATSA was not merelly a reputation problem. The problem of DIKATSA was its total inability to produce the recognition decissions within an acceptable time frame for each applicant. Of course nobody would have objected to the name change of DIKATSA to DOATAP if this was accompanied by actual results. But without the right changes in the operation of this organization that renaming is just a cheap propaganda enterprise (the real name for public relations).
Unfortunately, the rulers of this country are deeply influenced by the culture of public relations rather than the mindset to make things better and solve problems. Besides its easer to convince for some time the public that things are going well rather than to solve the real problems and make them actually well. As an argument I will mention the renaming of SDOE (something like the American DIA) to SOE. At least it is comforting that the people of this country do realise the cheat and they expect real changes and results to disconnect services from the evils of their past. Also for the record I will tell you that the Ministry of Agriculture became the Ministry of Rural Development and Foods.
Finally, I suggest you a book of one of the founders of "Public Relations". It is very likely to find it in a Torrent: Edward Vernays, "Propaganda". Also, here you will find a discussion on propaganda and public relations.

15 May 2009

Searching Books for DOATAP

One of the most fundamental of problems that is likely to face someone who is about to give exams in order to get recognised by DOATAP is to find the books for those exams. This is because students that are waiting to give these exams are not considered “proper” university students, therefore they are not entitled to receive free from the university these books. However, in Greece all other “proper” university students do receive their books for free. That is DOATAP's students have to either persuade someone to lend to them his books (something not so easy as it may sound), or buy them. Personally, I have found my books with these two ways, plus I asked a professor to lend me a spare book – which he did. You may say that I don't say anything notable here – most of the people have found their books with one or more of these ways. It's just that some people get easily desperate before they start to think more clear.

Another cost free way to find some books (those who download the Internet could just skip this post...) is to download them from the Internet in a PDF or some other electronic document format. Personally I have found half of the books I needed, but in English (many textbooks used in Greek universities are just translations of a foreign book). Whether it will suit you a foreign book falls entirely at your personal needs and most of the time you will not know until you download the book and give it a look. In my case from the three or four books I downloaded, only one was useful to me – it was a book with exercise solutions of the book that the lecturer used in his classroom. A particular interesting case is if you have studied a foreign language. That is because by the very nature of the subject in the universities they use books in the native language that were written. I.e. in English literature – English books, and so forth. Plus that classic literature books, as you may use in a Language course are free of any royalties and they are freely distributed in the Internet. Therefore if you fall into this category it is very likely you will find your textbooks.

First of all in order to search the Internet for your books you need the title and the writer of the book or maybe the publisher as well (either in Greek or English). If you don't have a touch with computers and the Internet ask a friend he knows how to do it for you. If you have a touch you can start with Google. Particularly Google has a search and download service, where you may find your books. Some books however are only partially available. The address is:

The next way is by Torrents. In order to download Torrent files you need a Torrent program first. You can find one in:

Once you have downloaded and installed the program, you can go in a search engine for Torrent files. One such search engine is:

Another way as well (there are many others however), is e-mule. That is a program that you install it on your PC. You can find it at

You have to install it and do some parameterization. Then you connect and search for the title you are interested.

Search advice: Whichever may be the way you are trying to find a book bear in mind that many times you have to make combinations of the title with surname of the author, the name, the publisher or even the title partitioned until you find what you want.

Downloading advice: If the sport of PC's and downloading is not your best, try not to download executable files, movies, mp3s and other irrelevant files, cos' there is a significant chance they'll have a virus. Finally, before you open any downloaded book (or file!), scan it with an antivirus program.

Good luck!

7 May 2009

Students met in Budapest, Hungary, to discuss the education systems across the EU

Subjects: duration of the curricula, studying abroad and how to connect universities and the job market. A debate on education, as part of the Y Vote 2009 youth campaign for the European elections.